can I use Apple II with a vga/dvi monitor? how to get software?


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Re: can I use Apple II with a vga/dvi monitor? how to get software?

Postby The Wizard of Oz » Mon, 19 Feb 2007 04:03:40 GMT

	First a basic pointer so you can get more information... The Apple// 
groups generally have the "2" character after the word "apple". I have 
crossposted the reply to comp.sys.apple2 for maximum results. You 
probably want to subscribe to that group as well. The 
group was created for PC users and Mac newbies who don't realise Apple 
made other machines before the Mac. The idea was to reduce the "noise" 
in the comp.sys.apple2 group. Unfortunately there is mixed success.

	To answer your first question... In a word yes but it's going to cost 
you. There were two VGA cards produced for the Apple//. They are fairly 
hard to find. *IF* you can find one then a KVM switch should work, The 
VGA cards don't support all the Apple// resolutions so you'd be better 
off with a colour composite monitor for the early Apples or the Apple 
IIGS RGB monitor if that's the machine you have.

	In terms of getting software... This is a bit more tricky. If your PC 
runs some form of *NIX (Linux, BSD, etc.) this makes it a whole lot 
easier. If you have any terminal software, you can connect your Apple to 
your PC and directly transfer the files. There are other methods but I'm 
in a bit of a rush today so I'll let the others give you the details.


Re: can I use Apple II with a vga/dvi monitor? how to get software?

Postby MarkW » Mon, 19 Feb 2007 09:50:38 GMT

Thanks for the help with the crossposting. I didn't realize that there
was a Apple 2 newsgroup but I'm subscribed now.
I am looking forward to hearing more about transferring files.  This
fall I purchased my first Apple product, a Macbook Pro. I am setting
it up as well with Parallels to run Linux (Ubuntu).  

Re: can I use Apple II with a vga/dvi monitor? how to get software?

Postby The Wizard of Oz » Tue, 20 Feb 2007 07:39:32 GMT

	No problem.

	Ubuntu isn't bad. It's an OK desktop. I have some issues with it but 
not enough to install anything else at the moment (but it's getting 
there). I'm running Dapper Drake. Edgy Eft kernel panics during the install.

	You may also want to try an Apple// emulator on the machine. Some 
people say they get better performance by running software in emulation 
than they do natively on the same machine. (eg. Appleworks in an 
emulator is much faster than M$ Word on a PC or Mac)


Re: can I use Apple II with a vga/dvi monitor? how to get software?

Postby BluPhoenyx » Tue, 20 Feb 2007 09:05:23 GMT

Yes, because you can 'max out' certain emulators and take advantage of 
features which usually aren't available on most II machines. Examples 
include 8mb ram (GS emulation) and multiple large disks.

Of course new hardware released such as CFFA disks remove some of this 
advantage. There is still the raw speed of many emulators on current 
hardware which I doubt could ever be matched.

Personally, I use both real hardware and emulated hardware. I find that 
works best when verifying extremes. For example, by max'ing the number 
of ProDOS hard drives available for testing a software project. I was 
able to test Atree's P8 volume functionality. My goal was to allow P8 to 
access up to it's limit of available drives.

Mike T.

Re: can I use Apple II with a vga/dvi monitor? how to get software?

Postby scott » Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:25:37 GMT

In article <gkIBh.1017314$1T2.371039@pd7urf2no>,

Actually, was comp.sys.apple2's predecessor.  comp.sys.apple2
was created 5 March 1990 to make more clear that it was primarily an Apple
II newsgroup:


A short time after that, should've gone away.  After April
1990, traffic has mostly been in the single digits per month:


Some news admins are more conscientious about deleting old newsgroups than

 / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS(  http://www.**--****.com/ !
 \_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden            >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Re: can I use Apple II with a vga/dvi monitor? how to get software?

Postby mk_dubrow » Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:03:11 GMT

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 22:39:32 GMT, The Wizard of Oz

You cannot compare Appleworks to Microsoft Word and claim one performs
better simply because you  max out the emulator.  Of course it runs
faster in an emulator, but maxing out an emulator for old hardware and
running it on a modern PC is hardly a legitimate or fair way to
measure performance.    By that same comparison Windows 3.11 performs
alot better on a modern 3.0Ghz  Pentium then it does the old 286/386's
systems it was originally written.   By that logic we should all start
running ancient Windows or Mac OS's on our modern machines simply
because they run faster.

Re: can I use Apple II with a vga/dvi monitor? how to get software?

Postby The Wizard of Oz » Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:03:40 GMT

	Gee a response from a post in February... I guess we have another 
person using Google Groups.

	Why not? If it meets the users needs then isn't it better?

	Again, why not?

	You are making the assumption Windows 3.11 doesn't meet the needs of 
the user. If it does then the argument is legitimate. To quote another 
poster from years ago... "In my opinion Windows is never the answer. 
Only the question."

	If they meet the needs of the user then the user should consider it. 
Picture running Appleworks on an Apple// emulator. The emulator itself, 
if well written, may be more stable than the host operating system. 
Those of us Apple// folks who have used MANY operating systems over the 
years can relate to this. More often than not, many of the Apple// apps 
are more stable than modern apps. Anecdotally, I've had Microsoft Word 
(Office) crash and corrupt all the hard drives in a system (twice - 
losing a months worth of work in the process). I've never had this 
happen with Appleworks. Some good programs will not work (without 
emulation) in a modern environment. The average user does not use 99% of 
the features of most modern programs. If a user can do without some 
features and if the older program does exactly what the user wants then 
isn't speed a good thing?


Re: can I use Apple II with a vga/dvi monitor? how to get software?

Postby pausch » Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:42:20 GMT

In article <00nli.108297$1i1.40973@pd7urf3no>,

Well, I suppose you got what you deserved, because when this happened,
you had committed two cardinal "sins":

1. When that MS-Word crashed and did all that damage to your stuff,
you were logged on to an account with administrator's right.  If you
instead had been logged on to an account with more limited user's
access rights, that could never have happened.  Only the folders to
which you had write privileges could have been damaged by that
fialing MS-Word, but never the entire hard disks.

2. You didn't back up your stuff properly - so you lost a months (sic!)
worth of work instead of merely a few hours worth of work.

I hope you leant from your mistakes so this won't happen to you again.
Hardware and software can always fail - so back up your stuff if you
don't want to lose it!  And just like Linux user's aren't logged on
as 'root' all the time, and Mac OS-X users usually are logged on to
accounts with limited access rights, so should Windows users avoid
logging on to an account with administrative rights for their daily
work.  The 'Administrator' account should be used only sometimes,
when you really have to, and never when reading your mail ur surfing
the web - or when running applications like MS-Word, which can crash
really badly....

Paul Schlyter,  Grev Turegatan 40,  SE-114 38 Stockholm,  SWEDEN
e-mail:  pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW:      http://www.**--****.com/ 

Re: can I use Apple II with a vga/dvi monitor? how to get software?

Postby Bryan Parkoff » Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:09:53 GMT

    I can tell that it is rare to overwrite or corrupt hard drive using 
limited access account on Windows NT and Linux.  Hardware failure can occur 
to bypass low level to overwrite sector by sector when there is nothing the 
security with restriction access can stop it.
    Write smaller code to develop software instead of larger code may be 
very stable.

Bryan Parkoff

Re: can I use Apple II with a vga/dvi monitor? how to get software?

Postby The Wizard of Oz » Sun, 15 Jul 2007 00:37:53 GMT

	This was back in 2000. No administrator accounts.

	It WAS backed up. To the second hard drive in the same system.

	Darned right!

	I now have multiple systems AND a reasonable backup path (DVDs) which I 
didn't have back then.

	Correct. I moved 95% to Linux (everything except the games). I don't 
use the root account unless it is absolutely necessary. Within the last 
couple of years I've been playing around with OS X (monoculture with 
hardware is not a good thing).

	You're preaching to the choir son. Back then I was running what was 
available. The boss says run Windows... I run Windows. The boss says run 
Office (Word)... I run Office. The boss asks me to produce work... I run 


Re: can I use Apple II with a vga/dvi monitor? how to get software?

Postby The Wizard of Oz » Sun, 15 Jul 2007 00:45:31 GMT

	Haven't had that level of grief since I switched to Linux and took 
Windows off the net. From that point the only installations I've done 
were either on other machines or major updates which would break when 
the regular update method was used.

	Back then that was indeed the case. What was a surprise was it managed 
to take out ALL the hard drives in a computer.

	With smaller code it is easier to find bugs. Another reason to run an 
Apple// emulator.


Re: can I use Apple II with a vga/dvi monitor? how to get software?

Postby pausch » Sun, 15 Jul 2007 03:43:13 GMT

n article <l%Mli.111516$NV3.19072@pd7urf2no>,
The Wizard of Oz < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote:

Windows NT had admin and user accounts before 2000 ....


A really proper backup shouldn't just be stored outside your computer,
but even in a different building! The building where you're working
can catch fire.....

There are btw hard drive recovery services one can buy, which can do
really amazing things at recovering seemingly lost data. These people
pick the hard drive apart, remove the magnetic disks, insert them in
their own recovery apparatus and read the disks, one by one, as much
as they can on every disk. They they put it all together to one big
disk image, as complete as they can. These services aren't cheap of
course, but can still be worthwhile in situations like the one you
encountered, where one full month's of work was at stake.


Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se

Re: can I use Apple II with a vga/dvi monitor? how to get software?

Postby The Wizard of Oz » Mon, 16 Jul 2007 02:31:29 GMT

aul Schlyter wrote:

Never said I was running an NT class of Windows.

Correct. However you have to work with the constraints of what you
have. If all you can afford is a second hard drive in the same machine
then that's all you can do. It's a different story now though.
Especially since people are scrapping fully functional machines just to
run Vista.

$20,000 to start and they'll get the new drive back to the customer
within a month. This is good if there is physical damage to the hard
drive. In my case the physical mechanisms were fine (still work in
fact). It was the content of the hard drives which got scrambled. The
modern way to recover data (I've done this for countless friends running
Windows) is to try to back up the files under another operating system.
Then reformat the hard drive and put the files back. The other way to do
this (assuming the modern method doesn't work) is to send the drive to a
company associated with the CIA. They are able to recover data up to 13
previous reformats ago. Starting cost is $200,000.

My solution of scrapping Microsoft for everything but games works very
well for me. YMMV. Of course there are those who believe the propaganda
and will never consider the option.


Re: can I use Apple II with a vga/dvi monitor? how to get software?

Postby pausch » Mon, 16 Jul 2007 06:12:34 GMT

n article <RL7mi.114117$NV3.3285@pd7urf2no>,
The Wizard of Oz < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote:


Most people didn't back then - but you could have, if stability and
robustness had been important enough for you. On my work I ran NT
from 1995 and on.... I never had a disk crash.

A backup doesn't have to reside in another computer to be "elsewhere"!
You could have written your backups to CD-R or DVD-R disks, or backup
tapes, and then stored the backup media somewhere else. Today you can
also put your backups on some suitable storage space on the Internet.

That stuff is overkill for normal disk crashes! You do the stuff you
describe here only if you want to recover data others have
deliberately erased from their disks.

A third option is this: get a new, blank, harddrive, format it and
reinstall Windows on that drive and make it the primary HD on your
system. Install your original harddrive as the secondary HD. Boot up
your machine from the new drive, and then read your documents from
your old drive. If needed, let some disk recovery utility work on the
original drive.

I did this on a friend's computer the other week: their computer just
refused to boot. When trying to boot the system CD and telling it to
either reinstall Windows or reformat the drive, the system CD got so
confused by the damaged registry that it crashed! So I bought a new
harddrive for them, reinstalled Windows on it, installed their
original harddrive as a secondary drive and then I could just read all
their data from the original drive without problems. A virus scanning
program later found some viruses on that harddrive -- now they've
learnt to _not_ log in to an administrator's account all the time....

One should of course not believe in any propaganda - neither the
propaganda that says you shouldn't run anything but Micro$oft'$ stuff,
nor the propaganda that says you should avoid Microsoft like the
plague. As usual, the truth is somewhere in between.

The major advantage of Windows is the very large amount of software
available for it, which means you're most likely to find the
application you need for that OS. That's why Linux has Wine, and
that's why modern Macs also can run Windows. And that's why you run
your games on Windows rather than on Linux..... :-)

Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se

Re: can I use Apple II with a vga/dvi monitor? how to get software?

Postby The Wizard of Oz » Tue, 17 Jul 2007 05:06:21 GMT

aul Schlyter wrote:

I couldn't afford NT back then.

Back then the burners were starting to drop in price from the $2000
mark. The media was still around $10 per disk. Over the next year and a
half the price of the burners dropped to around $250 (I picked up a used
one for $50) and the media dropped to under $1.00 per disk.

Actually this describes two different situations. Hardware problems
like the disk not spinning. The other is for software or user problems.
The modern method works most of the time. The other two are for extreme
cases (and extreme budgets).

That's a variation of the modern method I described earlier. I've found
it better to read the data to either a *NIX or OS X system rather than
moving it from one Windows drive to another. Both (*NIX in particular)
are better for recovering mangled files. FYI, many if not most recovery
utilities (boot CDs) are Linux based. For me, that procedure usually
works fine.

Man they were lucky. When Word crashed my system the disks wouldn't
even mount/read. The only thing to do was reformat and reinstall.
Normally you'd expect the problems of this nature to happen to the C:
drive. It took out the D: drive too.

True. What I described works for *ME*. My philosophy is anybody else
can do what ever the heck they want with their own computer. I'll give
advice when asked (like this time). My advice is to try a bunch of
different things and go with what works. Since a lot of people are
advocating M$, I have no need to go over the same material they have. To
get back to the VM thread, VMs work well. They generally don't take down
an entire system. Install them on a stable and secure box then have fun.

I won't argue Windows has a large software base. However if you take a
measure of the quality of the software available you'll find there are a
lot of terrible programs out there produced by guys who just want to
make a fast buck. I should know. I reviewed my fair share of terrible
games for Digital Civilization and Call-A.P.P.L.E.. I've also talked
with a number of developers. A lot of the more successful games under
Windows are developed under BSD and Linux then ported to the Windows
environment. The main reason people don't see these games for *NIX is
because of the various agreements signed with Microsoft. I won't even
talk about what happened to Loki Software.

In terms of running the same software under Windows or something
else... I've always found less problems with the actual programs (the
third party add ons are another story) when I get away from Windows.
Again, this is where running a VM helps.


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