Apple's subscription based OS


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Apple's subscription based OS

Postby Kevin McMurtrie » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:14:46 GMT

Microsoft shocked the computing industry when they said they wanted a 
subscription based OS.  Apple is doing exactly that and nobody even 
knows it.  The features you bought in one OS X version don't work until 
you buy the next.

For 10.0, 10.1, and now 10.2, paid upgrades are being released before 
the features shown on the box work correctly.  OS X is very buggy, and 
if any of those bugs hit you in your daily routine, you have an OS that 
doesn't work as advertised.

Remember how a paid update to 10.2 was required to get a stable Window 
Manager?  A buggy application can crash the 10.0 and 10.1 Window 
Manager, which then instantly kills all GUI applications.  Unsaved 
changes are lost.  The ads for OS X have always said that can't happen.

My 867MHz G4 has always had problems after waking from sleep.  A paid 
upgrade to 10.1 stopped the system hangs when the sound hardware failed 
to wake.  A paid upgrade to 10.2 was needed for the sound to to actually 
work after waking.  Throughout all of these upgrades, the motherboard 
Ethernet has not been reliable after waking.  10.2 helped but it still 
has cases where the carrier cycles on and off until the next time it is 
put to sleep.

AFP and SMB have always led to system hangs.  It barely worked enough in 
10.0 and 10.1 to mount a volume from a LAN.  File and folder locks were 
unbalanced.  Simply aborting one of three or more file copies created a 
locked directory that would hang any machine that looked at it.  A paid 
upgrade to 10.2 fixed system hangs due to unbalanced file locks but it 
still hangs the whole system if the connection to the remote volume is 
poor.  Combine this with a flakey motherboard Ethernet and you get 
nothing done.

Now there's this corrupted .DS_Store issue.  If you view a window in 
Finder containing files with incomplete resource forks, such as files 
being installed from a CD, it results in a directory that will crash any 
OS X machine upon viewing it.  It crashes the system even if it's on a 
disk image or a remote volume.  One has to delete the invisible 
.DS_Store files on the command line.  There are no other tools to fix it.

I've been doing hardware reboots of this so-called robust operating 
system like it was Windows NT4.  10.3 is almost out for sale and it 
looks like there's no chance in hell that 10.2 will be fixed to work as 
advertised.  I'm paying for upgrades to get the features I bought one or 
two versions ago.  It's funny how OS 9 still gets bug fixes.

Re: Apple's subscription based OS

Postby l » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:49:33 GMT

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,

For me, it only hangs the Finder. Which is of course also too much, but 
not as bad as Os 9. At least I can do something else while the Finder 
does whatever it (not) doing.

None that shipped with the system, perhaps, but a freeware app called 
Coctail can delete those.


Re: Apple's subscription based OS

Postby gwbushnospam » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 23:26:26 GMT

Paying for periodic upgrades is not the same as a subscription-based OS.
A subscription expires. Jaguar does not (aside from any new software
which in the future might work with Panther).    

Re: Apple's subscription based OS

Postby Frederick Cheung » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 23:37:37 GMT

Charging for updates is not some crafty new practce that apple is sneaking
in. None of Windows 95, 98, Millenium, XP were
free updates (and windows 98 SE might have being a paying update too).
OS 9 wasn't a free update, not was 8.5 or 8 or 7.5 or 7.

Software isn't always free. 10.1 was free because it really should have
been 10.0  but apple couldn't afford to let that deadline slip. Each of
10.2 and 10.3 represent about a year of work, which doesn't come cheap.


Re: Apple's subscription based OS

Postby David Magda » Sat, 05 Jul 2003 05:14:41 GMT

Kevin McMurtrie < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > writes:

First, with MS you *have* to upgrade: your license (under the new
regime) expires after several years and you are no longer legally
entitled to use the software.

Second, with OS X, you can use your copy as long as you like: there
is no requirement to upgrade to newer versions.

Lastly, I should follow my own advice and...

             +-------------------+             .:\:\:/:/:.
             |   PLEASE DO NOT   |            :.:\:\:/:/:.:
             |  FEED THE TROLLS  |           :=.' -   - '.=:
             |                   |           '=(\ 9   9 /)='
             |   Thank you,      |              (  (_)  )
             |       Management  |              /`-vvv-'\
             +-------------------+             /         \
                     |  |        @@@          / /|,,,,,|\ \
                     |  |        @@@         /_//  /^\  \\_\
       @x@@x@        |  |         |/         WW(  (   )  )WW
       \||||/        |  |        \|           __\,,\ /,,/__
        \||/         |  |         |      jgs (______Y______)


David Magda <dmagda at>,  http://www.**--****.com/ 
Because the innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under
the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may do well 
under the new. -- Niccolo Machiavelli, _The Prince_, Chapter VI

Re: Apple's subscription based OS

Postby Kevin McMurtrie » Sat, 05 Jul 2003 06:21:02 GMT

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,

I'm not trolling.  I've been using Apples since about 1982.  I've even 
had them at work as software development systems.

You say I can use my copy of MacOS X as long as I'd like.   That's not 
entirely true.  Several important features in 10.2 haven't worked since 
it was purchased and it appears that Apple will never fix them.

The public's expectations of quality have gone to hell.  First we 
lowered our expectations by paying money for a buggy product as long as 
free fixes came later.  Now we're buying buggy products that won't be 

10.3 has some new features that I really look forward to.  The new 
development environment looks promising.  I just worry how many of those 
new features won't work until I pay for 10.4.

Re: Apple's subscription based OS

Postby Steven Fisher » Sat, 05 Jul 2003 06:45:13 GMT

Have you ever used a program of significant size where everything worked?

Just look at GraphicConverter's release notes. I have nothing against GC 
in particular, in fact the opposite is true. Unlike many developers, the 
author includes detailed release notes. Check out how many problems are 
fixed with each release.

Jaguar basically works. Certain areas might need a bit more of a helping 
hand than others, but that's life.

Re: Apple's subscription based OS

Postby gwbushnospam » Sat, 05 Jul 2003 06:46:38 GMT


Re: Apple's subscription based OS

Postby pack » Sat, 05 Jul 2003 08:03:43 GMT

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,


But were these MacIntosh or Gala or Cameo or Rome or ....?
Did you peel and core them before using them?

I can't think of an operating system where this is not true. These
specific problems seem to plague you much more than others, possibly
because you really have an inherent hardware problem.

Witness the success of Windows.

The key to happiness in many areas of life is diminished expectations.
Try it. You'll be pleasantly surprised by respiration. Dazzled by basic
bodily functions.

You may be a candidate for linux. Then you are free to fix/modify whatever you wish.
And the price is right.

Daniel Packman

Re: Apple's subscription based OS

Postby Kevin McMurtrie » Sat, 05 Jul 2003 11:33:17 GMT

In article <be2cof$qo9$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,

A Quadra 840av, PowerMac 6100, PowerMac 8100av, Mac IIfx, Mac IIci, Mac 
LC III, various Centris, various Performas, various Powerbooks, and a 
B&W G3.  I'm a software developer for MacOS and Java.

OS 9.2 may be old but, as far as I've seen, it does everything it claims 
to do.  Apple is still releasing free bug fixes for OS 9.2.  I haven't 
had problems with Sun either.  Why is it that suddenly OS X versions 
become unmaintained before they're complete?

What if I only wanted to mount the big RAID from on my 
desktop?  It has my photos, my music, and my archives.  That would still 
cause my desktop to eventually lock up dead after waking from sleep.

My personal server,, uses OS X patched up with open 
source UNIX software.  For the specific task of serving it runs nicely.  
The same idea won't apply to my G4.  Getting open source software to 
integrate with Apple's custom flavor of UNIX is very difficult.

Re: Apple's subscription based OS

Postby Steven Fisher » Sat, 05 Jul 2003 18:04:45 GMT

The bug fix update to Mac OS 9.2 was in 2001.

Re: Apple's subscription based OS

Postby Keith Whaley » Sat, 05 Jul 2003 21:03:14 GMT


It does?
I currently work with 9.2.1 quite well, and have avoided 9.2.2 because I
am given to understand it's only useful (for some reason) if you have or
intend to get OS X.
Is/are there other OS 9.x.x bug fixes?

keith whaley

Re: Apple's subscription based OS

Postby gwbushnospam » Sat, 05 Jul 2003 21:32:31 GMT

Because he claims to be a Mac developer, yet doesn't comprehend that
OSes are never perfected, and therefore concludes that upgrades prices
are by definition "subscription based OSes."


Re: Apple's subscription based OS

Postby seebs » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 02:31:11 GMT

In article <1fxkd3y.1q1d249txvgowN% XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,

I don't think you're correct, here.  I think he understands that OSes are
never perfected.  On the other hand, it wasn't until OS 10.2 that I could
print to custom paper sizes from my Mac, and I still haven't been able to
get it to work correctly with #9 envelopes.  Custom paper sizes strike me
as core functionality that ought to have been in 10.1 at the very very latest.

I'd tend to agree that Apple is screwing some people by bundling necessary
fixes to get advertised features to work with new features.  I should be
able to get a *fixed* 10.2, without paying to upgrade to 10.3.

   Copyright 2003, all wrongs reversed.  Peter Seebach /  XXXX@XXXXX.COM 
    http://www.**--****.com/ :// - homepage.
     C/Unix wizard, pro-commerce radical, spam fighter.  Boycott Spamazon!
Consulting, computers, web hosting, and shell access:  http://www.**--****.com/ 

Re: Apple's subscription based OS

Postby Thomas Beck » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 02:47:25 GMT

that's bull. support ends, not the license to use the software.

with Apple, once 10.2 came out, if you didn't upgrade you could not use any
program or version released afterwards, since they all required 10.2. Not
exclusively Apple programs, also others. Apple's motivation was to make us
buy the new OS, the other developers were just lazy to test the programs
under both systems.

I'm very confident, once 10.3 is released, you can either freeze the list of
software you use, forever, because there'll be no new programs for you to
use, or you'll have to upgrade within a few months if there's just one new
programm you'll need.

At least software for Windows usually runs on versions of Windows several
years old, not just one year.

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In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,
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