Uninstaller and Windows CE Services

I developed a NullSoft installer for my eVC3 application. It installs the 
application on a desktop PC and handheld device all right. Also it copies 
Uninstall.exe (and bunch of CAB files) to the desktop. The question is 
related to removing/uninstalling the application.

When I go to ActiveSync and Remove the app, it suppose to remove the app 
from both device & desktop PC, but it removes from the device but leaves 
files delivered to desktop intact. When I run Uninstall.exe it is exactly 
opposite. It removes all files (and registry entries) from desktop but leaves 
the app on the device even if it was connected to PC at the time.

I assume Windows CE Services should run Uninstall.exe during ActiveSync's 
Remove operation. How come Windows CE Services is not aware of Uninstall.exe? 
Or am I missing something?

Thnks for your insight,
Murad

On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 00:49:05 -0800, "Murad"




I've seen the same. I'm not happy. But I think the few files (and
probably registry entries) left behind on the desktop take up very
little room and have no other effect. Especially compared to the
garbage often left behind by software install/uninstall. So I'm
resigned to live with it.


I hadn't hear of uninstall.exe until reading this. So I hope someone
else helps us both out.



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Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
Boston, MA 02118
www.penfact.com

I guess it is all right to live with it, but if you are looking for M$ logo 
certification you need to clean up everything brought by your application. 
Right now I see that you can clean either from PDA (by ActiveSync's Remove) 
or from desktop (by running Uninstall.exe), but these two entities are not 
hooked to each other as one would logically assume.

There is more to it. During installation Windows CE Services writes the 
following registry entry into desktop:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows CE 
Services\AppMgr\Apps\MyApplication

So Services have information about the installed application, where it was 
installed, but does not hook Uninstall.exe from that folder during 
ActiveSync's Remove operation. Puzzling.

Thanks for the post Robert,
Murad

Keep in mind there are actually 2 different installs involved that are 
potentially separated by time if the device is not connected at the time you 
first install to the desktop. The first installs the files needed on the 
desktop side of the application if any and also installs the device side 
pieces onto the desktop system registering them with ActiveSynch. At some 
later time (perhaps immediately after if the device is connected) 
ActiveSynch will transfer the files to the device and start the device 
installation. You can then remove the desktop installation and it is gone. 
Then some time later the device side can be removed. (You can create a 
desktop side removal that will remove the device side as well if it's 
connected - but that's often not what users want or need.

ActiveSynch does not know if there is any other desktop related components 
to the installation nor how it should uninstall such a thing. It might be 
useful to have an optional method of registering a desktop uninstaller with 
ActiveSynch in some cases but most of the time it would not be what is 
desired or expected.


-- 
Steve Maillet
EmbeddedFusion
www.EmbeddedFusion.com
smaillet at EmbeddedFusion dot com

On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 16:26:30 -0500, "Steve Maillet \(eMVP\)"




I understand the challenges behind uninstallation. But I'm bothered by
false advertising: the tool in the ActiveSync dialog box on the
desktop claims to remove both pieces, but doesn't.

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To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
Boston, MA 02118
www.penfact.com

Actually it does remove both pieces of the _CE_ software. It removes the CE 
software registered with Activesynch on the desktop (e.g. the device CAB 
files) and it runs the uninstall on the device. Both of those parts are 
managed by ActiveSynch and under its control. If you use the Add/Remove 
again in ActiveSynch after that you will no longer have the option of 
installing that application to the device. However, the desktop side of 
things, if any, will continue to function. It's confusing sometimes, yes, 
but not "false advertising". This is important for desktop applications that 
simply have an optional CE device component. Just because the device part is 
removed from a device and the desktop doesn't mean you want to remove the 
desktop application as well.

Again, it would be nice if there was a means to optionally register a 
desktop removal with AS so that in cases where it made no sense to keep the 
desktop side AS could trigger the uninstall of that as well. Unfortunately 
that does not exist at this point so you have to live with it.

-- 
Steve Maillet
EmbeddedFusion
www.EmbeddedFusion.com
smaillet at EmbeddedFusion dot com

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:08:27 -0500, "Steve Maillet \(eMVP\)"




Well, I just tested. I started Tools->Add/Remove Program in the
ActiveSync dialog box. I clicked the Remove button. Sure enough, that
triggered an uninstall from the attached handheld. It also removed the
line for that app from the list of programs. But it did _not_ remove
the cab files on my desktop. And I have never seen the tool remove
those files. I don't think it is a major issue. It may well be the
usual install/uninstall problem (uninstall undoes _exactly_ what was
done during the most recent install). If so, I have far less sympathy
in this situation than in most, because I don't see anywhere near as
many complications. And I think "false advertising" is a pretty good
description.



I _definitely_ agree. But the installation files for the CE pieces are
in a very specific location (under the directory containing the
ActiveSync executables). Easily found and easily distinguished from
desktop pieces.


At least some Windows CE programs I've installed show up in Add/Remove
Programs for my desktop. I suppose this is appropriate and answers
your wish. I'm quite sure my app doesn't do it, so I don't know the
"magic".

-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
Boston, MA 02118
www.penfact.com

Hi,


This one has been of concern to me.  I'm not sure what triggers this,
but I've seen it happen with apps where there is no separate desktop
component (other than the standard stuff controlled by ActiveSync)
I'm not sure what was done differently with the installer when this
happens or does not.  This would be a non-issue to me except for the
fact that when ActiveSync uninstalls from the desktop and the device,
the remnant Add/Remove is still listed with the desktop programs.

Any clues?

Almon B. Strowger
KOOK Pocket Software

That would be the method of installation to the desktop. The desktop CABS 
are NOT removed as they are considered "owned" by the installer for the 
desktop. So if you use add/remove on the desktop those parts should be 
removed. Again this is the result of the two separate installations. 
Unfortunately there is no official mechanism for connecting the two 
uninstalls. (e.g. When you remove from AS you also trigger the remove on the 
desktop.) The other way is easy enough to handle in the desktop uninstaller 
already.

-- 
Steve Maillet
EmbeddedFusion
www.EmbeddedFusion.com
smaillet at EmbeddedFusion dot com

Hi,

Yes Steve, both Robert and I understand the purview of
the device and desktop installs with and without any
separate desktop app.
And yes, typically when ActiveSync is told to
"Remove from both locations." it does not run uninstall.exe.
And yes, the desktop side uninstall does indeed run uninstall.exe.
That all sounds well and good if you look at it in terms of the
CABs being "owned" by the desktop.
But I think that the complaint that many of us have with the
way this works is justified when there is no separate desktop
component (other than the CABs, INF, etc.) in other words,
it's all in an ActiveSync directory.  Even if an install left other
"droppings" on the system, if ActiveSync can remove it from its
install list, it can remove the stuff in that ActiveSync directory.

Especially when in the past I have seen "odd/rare" things such as:
- ActiveSync actually removing those files.
- The "desktop" not adding anything to its Add/Remove list
   in the first place (when there is no separate desktop app.)
- And what I mentioned before:  ActiveSync actually removing
  those files, but leaving the remains of the Add/Remove on the
  "desktop."

My question was/is what causes these quirks?
Were they all just random bugs not seen by anyone but me?
Was I just drunk for some or all of these (quite possible)?

I suspect that the last one was "fixed" by disallowing the ActiveSync
to remove the CAB files and enforce that they are the purview of
the desktop side uninstaller, because of the oversight about what
ActiveSync could/would/should do in such a case.

Almon B. Strowger
KOOK Pocket Software






the
uninstaller

You say you get it but your questions indicate you aren't  - so let me hit 
the points individually.

AS should remove the CAB files when you select to remove the device and 
desktop sides. If it doesn't you should report that as a bug to Microsoft. 
(be sure to specify the AS version used)

This is by design - The ONLY way a DESKTOP Add/Remove entry will appear is 
if a DESKTOP installer puts it there. AS only manages the device portion of 
the install.

Again AS manages the device side of thing NOT the desktop. It will 
unregister things from AS but that's it. The rest is up to a desktop 
installer to remove. Yes it' would be good if there was a method of 
connecting the AS remove to a desktop remove; but there isn't at this point. 
If you don't know how a desktop installer registers with the add/remove 
their check out the install creation tools from Wise and InstallShield.

-- 
Steve Maillet
EmbeddedFusion
www.EmbeddedFusion.com
smaillet at EmbeddedFusion dot com

Hi,


I reread my message and you're right, it doesn't come across well.
I'll try again.


This is what several of us have been complaining about.
Should this always work no matter which version of ActiveSync and which
version of Windows?

of

point.

Yes--I apologize for ranting and not being clear about what I am
speculating.
In trying to figure out why AS sometimes removes the CABS and sometimes
doesn't (when "Remove from both" is used), my thought was that maybe
AS has some smarts to it about checking that the "desktop" already has an
uninstaller (in an AS directory) registered, and if it detects such, it will
defer, and not remove those files.

What do you think is the reason / cause why AS wouldn't remove the CABs
when the "Remove from both" is selected, and as you say, that is a bug?

Thanks,

Almon B. Strowger
KOOK Pocket Software

I don't know why it doesn't in some cases. I have not seen that behavior. So 
you need to isolate the problem to a small repeatable case. You can post 
that case here for further help, but I recommend reporting it to Microsoft 
as well.

-- 
Steve Maillet
EmbeddedFusion
www.EmbeddedFusion.com
smaillet at EmbeddedFusion dot com

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:03:40 -0800, "Almon B. Strowger"




This is the piece that concerns me. Not enough for me to test much. Or
even report. Or complain about. I mostly assume it never works.
OK, so I haven't done anything to help, but at least I haven't whined.

-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
Boston, MA 02118
www.penfact.com

Hi,

Not that it's a big deal--I just joined in because I have also
seen the behavior (along with many others).  And it is
curious that some people see it almost always work one
way, and others...well...almost always see it the other way.
That's why I'm guessing it's an intentional feature of AS.
(Checking if the desktop has an uninstaller registered, and
 if found to be the case, then to not delete the CABs,
or some other such nonsense.)
Robert, if you're resigned to assume that it's broken, that's
cool, but I thought that maybe since you still have dealings
with older devices, and presumably customers with them
and old versions of AS, etc., that maybe this discussion
might spark some memory or insight of yours.

Almon B. Strowger
KOOK Pocket Software