Is there a best practise to implement a warm standby-solution

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Is there a best practise to implement a warm standby-solution

Postby Um9uQw » Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:02:04 GMT

Hello:

I am planning to integrate an existing application with MSCS. However, in a 
failover scenario a full application startup will take too long. Therefore I 
am planning to implement a warm standby instance of the application. I would 
like that status of the warm standby instance to be a consideration in a 
failover decision.

Do you have any suggestions on how I might accomplish this with MSCS as 
opposed to building a custom cluster aware component?


RE: Is there a best practise to implement a warm standby-solution

Postby UnlhbiBIYW5pc2Nv » Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:24:02 GMT

Hi RonC,

This will really depend on the application.  In most cluster-aware apps, all 
nodes stay running with the app ready to go.  On failure, the other takes 
over with only the time for the failure detect and session reconnect.

If the app is not built for this, your options may be far fewer.
-- 
Ryan Hanisco
MCSE, MCTS: SQL 2005, Project+
Chicago, IL

Remember: Marking helpful answers helps everyone find the info they need 
quickly.






RE: Is there a best practise to implement a warm standby-solution

Postby Um9uQw » Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:14:08 GMT

Ryan, thanks for your response.

My application is not a problem. Rather I am looking for a best practice 
from a MSCS perspective to achieve the following:

1) The ability to monitor the state of multiple instances of the same 
application, while only one instance is in an active mode. (Probably using 
multiple resource groups).

2) The ability to failover active state. The ability to monitor the state of 
all application instances and make failover decisions based on application 
state. (Probably using another resource group and custom code with the MSCS 
eventing mechanism).

So my questions:

Is there a best practice or out of the box mechanism to achieve some / all 
of the above.

If a custom solution is required, do you think I am moving towards the land 
of unintended / unsupported.






Re: Is there a best practise to implement a warm standby-solution

Postby Chuck [MSFT] » Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:48:06 GMT

Microsoft Clustering services cannot provide what you need.  We provide 
'high' availability, not '100%' availability.  Failing over application 
'state' is not possible.  We disconnect clients during a failover and the 
clients must be able to reconnect.  If your applications use Distributed 
Transactions, then the ACID process should help deal with that.

-- 
Chuck Timon, Jr.
Microsoft Corporation
Windows Server 2008 Readiness Team
This posting is provided 'AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.









Re: Is there a best practise to implement a warm standby-solution

Postby Um9uQw » Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:42:01 GMT

i Chuck. Thanks, but I realize there will be a disruption to the clients
during failover.

All I want to do is reduce the failover time. I can achieve this with a
second instance of the application running in a warm state. The application
is complex with multiple services. If a service fails in the active instance,
I want to know I am failing to an instance of the application that is in good
health (having a better service level than the failed from side). Failing to
the warm instance would only involve a failover of an I P address.

Thanks again for your response.

Hi Chuck. Thanks, but I realize there will be a disruption to the clients
during failover.

"Chuck [MSFT]" wrote:


Re: Is there a best practise to implement a warm standby-solution

Postby Chuck [MSFT] » Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:24:28 GMT

e still do not failover 'state' information.

--
Chuck Timon, Jr.
Microsoft Corporation
Windows Server 2008 Readiness Team
This posting is provided 'AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
"RonC" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...


Re: Is there a best practise to implement a warm standby-solution

Postby Edwin vMierlo [MVP] » Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:52:38 GMT

ounds to me you want some sort of NLB, but then also failing over "state"
or "session" info.
Your application need to take care of that, custering will not do that for
you.


"RonC" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
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Re: Is there a best practise to implement a warm standby-solution

Postby Um9uQw » Sat, 28 Jul 2007 00:48:01 GMT

hanks all, I do appreciate your attention:

I suspected that some of what I need is not provided by MSCS. My concern is
"am I trying to do something that is beyond support". I'll try to articulate
the solution in a way that focuses on my areas of concern:

1) In a two node cluster I am planning to run an instance of the same
application (ApplicationX) on each node. ApplicationX is cluster aware. Each
instance will be managed by a separate resource group. These resource groups
will be configured to not failover (i.e. only run on one node). Is this type
of configuration supported?

2) In the same two node cluster, I am planning to run one instance of an
application (ApplicationY, different from the above). ApplicationY will be
cluster aware. Using the eventing mechanism in MSCS, ApplicationY and will
listen to cluster events initiated from the resource groups managing
ApplicationX instances. ApplicationY will be managed by a third resource
group. This resource group will failover, between the two nodes. The failover
criteria will be based on the online/offline status of ApplicationX instances
collect through MSCS events. Is this type of implementation supported?

My plan is to have ApplicationY tell the local instance of ApplicationX to
be the active one. Note even though both instances of X are online, only one
can be "active".

ApplicationX is not stateless so NLB won't fly.

I need both instances of ApplicationX past initialization to reduce the
failover time.

I don't want to fail to an instance of ApplicationX if it's not healthy.

"Chuck [MSFT]" wrote:


Re: Is there a best practise to implement a warm standby-solution

Postby Edwin vMierlo [MVP] » Sat, 28 Jul 2007 01:02:07 GMT

don't think that MSCS is the right platform for this.
Doing all this on a failover cluster is just adding complexity.

you are talking about some sort of "Application Failover" from within an
Application, monitored and decision making by a third app (your app Y)... I
fail to see why you cannot run this on standalone hosts.

Also, the below does not take care of "state", you need to code that into
your appX



"RonC" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
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